How to play files with proper frequency in aiso and wasapi mode ?

[otto0815]

hello

i am new here


i use a usb dac and want to play my audio files bit perfect with proper frequency.
when i select asio or wasapi i have to set an output frequency and bitrate in options (playback --> parameters)

is there an "auto" option ??

foobar2k and all other players with asio/wasapi support use frequency and bitrate with autodetect
means files are played like they are encoded
bitperfect

with aimp i have to set the parameters manually !


when i set it to 192000 all files no matter if they are 192000 or higher or lower will be played with 192000 !
when i set it to 44100 all files no matter if they are 44100 or higher will be played with 44100 !

with asio and wasapi mode output frequency should be same as input ! without resampling !!


how can i select auto option ?
so that aimp will use audio file frequency and bitrate automatically as output format when using aiso or wasapi exclusive mode ?
(like all other players do)


thx

[Artem]

Auto is impossible to implement, because changing the freq take a lot of time on some output method and devices.
Use default value for you sound card (usually this value is 48 KHz)

[otto0815]

thx for the answer


i use a yamaha mcr 870d as soundcard
with build in usb dac SABRE 32 ES9010
(it can play files up to 32 bit 384khz and dsd files up to 5,6 mhz)


when i use 48 khz then 96k, 192k files will be downsampled and 44,1k files upsampled
but not played like there were encoded !
same for sacd
instead of playing them in dsd 2,8mhz aimp plays them in pcm mode with 48khz then.

using asio or wasapi mode is useless if files are not played with encoded frequency like they should.
windows mixer is bypassed but aimp will resample them !


aimp is a nice player with nice skins but for high quality audio files useless


foobar2k in asio mode plays
44,1k files with 44,1k
96k files with 96k
192k files with 192k
and with sacd plugin sacds with 2,8 mhz in dsd mode with 2,8 mhz

guess i stay with foobar2k

[Artem]

Do you listen difference between original 44.1 KHz and upsampled to 48 KHz?

[otto0815]

hmmm i guess not

but why up or downsample ?
best quality is untouched playback in org frequency


its the same question:
do u hear difference between 192k mp3, 320k mp3 and lossless flac ?
or 44,1k 16 bit cd  vs. sacd with 2,8 mhz 1 bit

some people say yes some people say no

[Soolo]

hmmm i guess not

but why up or downsample ?
best quality is untouched playback in org frequency

Most of output methods requires re-initialization to change the freq, that can take a lot of time.
So, in this case, cross-mixing, gapless playback will not be available.

[otto0815]

Most of output methods requires re-initialization to change the freq, that can take a lot of time.
So, in this case, cross-mixing, gapless playback will not be available.

hmm yep but i dont use gapless play 


seems perfect audio player does not exist
foobar2k has very bad skin support

aimp bad support for audiophiles who use expansive audio equipment and want best possible sound quality
SOX resampler is not bad but i guess quality is better without resampling 

guess most users use onboard sound chip and with it it makes no difference if u play 320k mp3 or lossless flac or which frequency

[Artem]

do u hear difference between 192k mp3, 320k mp3 and lossless flac ?

Yes, exaclty on power-metal songs

[otto0815]

aimp is a good player
with nice skins

just asio/wasapi playback without resampling is missing 

can't u create a beta version with auto frequency support for audiophile users ?
even when some features like gapless play dont work with auto setting 
(gapless will still work if files have same frequency)

[Artem]

can't u create a beta version with auto frequency support for audiophile users ?
even when some features like gapless play dont work with auto setting  (gapless will still work if files have same frequency)

No, not in near future.

[otto0815]

 

i just wonder why aimp uses a resampler with asio

all other audio players bypass windows mixer in asio mode and send the audio file directly to the soundcards driver to be played directly 1:1
foobar2k, xmplay, mpc hc, mpc be (does this also for video files), etc....


i mean with asio/wasapi i bypass windows mixer but then i got aimp resampler or i have to change output manually

[Artem]

i just wonder why aimp uses a resampler with asio

Because our engine requires same stream formats for gapless playback and mixing the tracks.

all other audio players bypass windows mixer in asio mode and send the audio file directly to the soundcards driver to be played directly 1:1
foobar2k, xmplay, mpc hc, mpc be (does this also for video files), etc....

Have the MPC HC / MPC BE asio support? These can auto switch the output freq? The first time I've heard about this...

i mean with asio/wasapi i bypass windows mixer but then i got aimp resampler or i have to change output manually

A will ask again, do you heard differences? I think no, because differences is too small and cannot be heard. I have no idea, why I should remove cool features from the player just for implementation auto-freq feature if no one user can heard differences between original and re-sampled song. Note that player is not professional software that must be a perfect in all cases.

[otto0815]

i use mpc be
sry it was a mistake it has no asio support but wasapi 

(options --> audio --> audio renderer --> mpc audio renderer
properties --> wasapi mode exclusiv --> allow bit exact output
       
it changes output frequency automatically like input file (for both audio and video files)
but mpc be has no audio library so its not ideal for audio files
and it cannot open sacd isos




"low-quality resampling algorithms, whether upsampling or downsampling, can introduce artifacts which are clearly audible in the resampled audio file"
from hydrogenaudio board

even when you dont hear a difference why resampling  which "can" make quality worse ?

[Artem]

(options --> audio --> audio renderer --> mpc audio renderer
properties --> wasapi mode exclusiv --> allow bit exact output
       
it changes output frequency automatically like input file (for both audio and video files)

Are you sure? Because I am not. Does MPC have cross-fading feature or gapless playback?

even when you dont hear a difference why resampling  which "can" make quality worse ?

Different does not mean worse.

[otto0815]

Are you sure?

yep my yamaha mcr 870d shows input frequency

Does MPC have cross-fading feature or gapless playback?

i guess not


but mpc be has cue support 
mpc hc does not

Different does not mean worse.

yep but also does not mean better 

[Artem]

yep but also does not mean better 

Why you think so? May be upscaled result will be closer to original with same freq, may be not. No waranty. But this difference you cannot heard, any way

[otto0815]

i guess best quality is org. format without any changes.



btw i have a small question
when i open a file or change song
on top of windows desktop there comes a message with file infos for a few seconds

how can i disable this ?


edit: ah found it

[Soolo]

i guess best quality is org. format without any changes.

i guess по барабану

[Artem]

i guess best quality is org. format without any changes.

Do you header the difference? No? So, do not keep in mind this thing.

[reddino]

you could block in the preferences the volume to 100%. in foobar the volume is set on zero....

[sveakul]

An interesting discussion here!

Just weighing in with a couple of my own comments:

1.  No, I cannot hear a difference between audio resampled, say, from 44.1kHz or 48kHz to 96kHz with the Sox resampler.  Maybe SRC or PPHS (never tried!), but AIMP uses Sox.

2.  Because of #1,  the inability to turn off/on resampling in AIMP is not of big importance to me.  But just to address otto0815's comments, I don't think he's saying that any features from AIMP should be removed (like cross-fade and fade/in/out), only that he wants the <option> to switch off (or on) resampling-- and then a user would accept that if he switches it off he also loses the ability to use the fading features for that session.

It's true that no single player can be "perfect choice" in all things, too personal!!

[Artem]

To implement auto-freq I should re-write our sound engine, I have no plans to do that just for this option.

[sveakul]

Understood!  Thank you for reply, and for using Sox instead of PPHS/SRC.

[otto0815]

only that he wants the <option> to switch off (or on) resampling

that would be good

the reason to use asio or wasapi and not direct sound is to bypass windows mixer to avoid resampling
but when aimp resample the files the reason to use asio or wasapi is invalid.

t's true that no single player can be "perfect choice" in all things, too personal!!

yep i have to choose now:

aimp with nice denon tape deck skin and with resample if i dont change frequency manually (and for sacd aimp has no dsd 2,8 mhz output)

or foobar2k with bit perfect asio/wasapi output for best sound quality but looks boring like ms excel 

To implement auto-freq I should re-write our sound engine

would be nice if people can chose from 2 output engines in options:
one with resampling for cross fading and gabless play and other engine für true bit perfect playback without resampling 


guess you don't need 2 completely different engines for that.
for true bit perfect playback just dont use sox resampler and send files directly to soundcard driver 1:1 like they were encoded.
to play sacds with full 2,8 mhz dsd mode may be there need to be some changes to the engine to support dsd output with 2,8 mhz and may be with 5.6 mhz.
dont know how complex aimp is.

[otto0815]

Do you header the difference? No? So, do not keep in mind this thing.

i did some testing now with foobar2k and aimp playing sacd
i use a yamaha mcr n870d set to pure direct mode (means bass, balance and treble circuits are bypassed and file is played 1:1) with beyerdynamic dt 880 600ohm headphones.

difference may be extremely small but at least i think i hear a differnce and foobar2k sounds a bit "clearer" playing sacd with native dsd mode compared to aimp with resample

and i noticed that aimp volume with 100% is lower than playback with foobar2k and asio (volume settings is disabled and file is played with 100% in asio mode)
when aimp volume setting is set to 100% there should not be a difference in volume.....


foobar2k looks boring but for audio player output quality is more important than skins:-)
btw: cd and record player dont have gapless and cross fading either :-) )

[Soolo]

i think i hear a differnce

you think

double blind testing will help to you

[otto0815]

you think

double blind testing will help to you

different volume at 100% makes it also not easy to compare